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Well, macs don't last as long as PCs. Posting from an old Thinkpad W510, now 11 years old, running a modern OS of the same sort as it has always run, 100% up to date with security patches and with the latest firefox. There are no macs of a comparable age which an say the same: they are all out of support and blocked from the latest security updated and hence a liability on the internet.
Mod me down fanbois, you know it's true!
Yeah it's s dig, but really, PCs now last nearly until they break. It's not like it
Well, macs don't last as long as PCs. Posting from an old Thinkpad W510, now 11 years old, running a modern OS of the same sort as it has always run, 100% up to date with security patches and with the latest firefox. There are no macs of a comparable age which an say the same: they are all out of support and blocked from the latest security updated and hence a liability on the internet. Mod me down fanbois, you know it's true! Yeah it's s dig, but really, PCs now last nearly until they break. It's not like it used to be.
Well, macs don't last as long as PCs. Posting from an old Thinkpad W510, now 11 years old, running a modern OS of the same sort as it has always run, 100% up to date with security patches and with the latest firefox. There are no macs of a comparable age which an say the same: they are all out of support and blocked from the latest security updated and hence a liability on the internet.
Mod me down fanbois, you know it's true!
Yeah it's s dig, but really, PCs now last nearly until they break. It's not like it used to be.
As a user of both Macs and Windows machines, I keep the Macs around 3 years longer than The windows machines end up running Linux before they get trashed.
PC = Personal Computer. As opposed to other computer classes like mainframes, tablets, smartphones, consoles, and calculators.
There's Windows PCs, MacOS PCs, Linux PCs, even Unix PCs thanks to BSD. And the variety used to be much larger: The Commodore 64 and Amiga were PCs, so was the BBC Micro, several models of Atari home computers, and many others.
"PC" often gets conflated with "Windows PC" for historical reasons commonly traced back to the original "IBM PC" marketing campaign, but that's always been
And? Apple has always tried to position themselves as something different - otherwise it makes it really hard to justify their obscene profit margins.
The language is not redefined because some marketing department embraces the mis-use of a term.
We're keeping Macs around at work for some time. Many still on the 2015 Macbook Pros, despite the swelling unreplaceable batteries, because newer ones are having issues, and the newest ones aren't Intel and it's a pain in the ass to get the tools working on them. It is actually easier to get a good unix like development system set up on Windows than on MacOS, which is ironic. MacPorts and HomeBrew are the only real way to get tools, and even then they currenty require the giant download of Apple Xcode bef
In mac running Linux is a PC, but not useful as a mac per se since it can't run mac software.
Much less use for me changing the OS. I run my OS of choice for a reason. Fortunately it's Linux so mymachines have a very long life.
If you say so. My wife is still using her 2010 MacBook Pro.
If you say so. My wife is still using her 2010 MacBook Pro.
If you say so. My wife is still using her 2010 MacBook Pro.
And my daily driver is a mid-2012 Macbook Pro.
I can confirm, my old Thinkpad died of bad soldering on the NVIDIA GPU (it needs reballing, too expensive) and the Mac of the same vintage (2013) is still cranking. The thinkpad is still around as a headless Linux server due to GPU issues.
For folks with older Macs that are no longer getting security updates, there are two good options -- install Linux, or use OpenCore Legacy Patcher (https://github.com/dortania/Opencore-Legacy-Patcher). I've done both and they're excellent options. I just updated a 2011 Mac Mini with OCLP to MacOS Monterey and was impressed how easy it was. Soon after the upgrade, I was prompted to install the latest update for the OS and had no problems at all.
OpenCore has various issues depending on what mac you have and how old it is. It can usually only extend your mac a couple of releases before it becomes unusably slow, suffers serious glitches or has key hardware not working.
Considering the sort of people who buy Macs, I'd argue anything other than MacOS is NOT a good option. Very few people pay the "Mac tax" unless they want the whole Mac experience. (Though I do recall a time when Mac laptops were quite popular among wealthy Linux users thanks to their incredible build quality)
If you're a Mac user whose computer is no longer getting updates, I'd argue the best thing you can do is find a Linux user to sell it to, and buy a newer Mac.
Since it has a hard drive, I am pretty sure the performance will be intolerable. Of course if you are used to a horse and buggy you would not perceive it as slow.
Sorry to break it to you, but you pwn3d someone else's laptop, not mine. If you actually had the right one you'd see that it had the original SATA SSD, and a rather large one in the bay that the DVD drive used to occupy before it broke.
I have a 20 year old thinkpad that runs just fine.
Intel macs are pretty easy to be revitalized with linux. I have this 2015 macbook retina that was basically unusable with Catalina basically stealing all the CPU and GPU resources with the fancy UI etc. but one arch pendrive later and it's quite zippy and happy now, with up to date web browsers, graphical drivers etc..
Well, golly, if your PC runs for 11 years, they all must. You are very special.
>Well, golly, if your PC runs for 11 years, they all must.
Pretty much. PC performance plateaued almost two decades ago, with only marginal improvements since then (aside from GPUs). Unless you're doing something *extremely* demanding like playing AAA games or rendering movies you're unlikely to really notice the difference between a brand new PC, and one of the early 64-bit PCs from 15 years ago upgraded with a SSD and maybe some extra RAM. Microsoft Office, Photoshop, web browsers, etc. will all run
IME 10 year old hardware is much more usable than 15 year old hardware at this time.
I own a core 2 duo based macbook, which spent most of it's life runing linux (it's set up as a triple boot with windows XP and some version of macos, but it spent nearly all of it's time in Linux). I think it's the 2.16 GHz "mid 2007" model. I retired it for a few reasons.
1. Ram the model in question only supported 3GB of usable ram. Afaict it was very common with machines of that vintage for the chipset to only support 4GB
Criminy - I forgot about the 3GB wall. That wasn't a hardware limitation though, (at least I never heard of such a thing - maybe in some cheap e-machine class computers?), it's just that few people installed a 4th GB because it was mostly wasted by sloppy 32bit XP design decisions that hid most of the 4th GB behind hardware memory mapping. If I remember right, with 4GB physical RAM you'd typically get between 3.2 and 3.6GB usable, based on your specific hardware options and OS settings. Though I seem to
That wasn't a hardware limitation though,
That wasn't a hardware limitation though,
The 4GB address space limit pops up in various places.
* It's a limitation of CPUs without PAE (or with PAE disabled). In practice CPU support is a non-issue as the CPUs have supported PAE for years. * It's a limitation of 32-bit Desktop windows since XP SP2 even with PAE enabled. In XP SP2 this limit was hardcoded into the kernel and infeasible to disable. In Vista and Win7 this was implemented through the licensing system and can be bypassed. I ave no idea wat the situation is in win10 * It's a limitation of
The 4GB limit does - it's an inherent limit of fully 32-bit CPUs. PAE was designed to work around it, somewhat, but it still limited each program to it's own 4GB address space, so was of limited use to home users who generally weren't running several RAM-hungry programs simultaneously. Kicking the OS and other programs out of your memory space helped, a bit, but that 4GB was still a solid wall for any given program.
The 3GB "limit" though was all Microsoft, due to sloppy DMA hardware memory mapping choices
The only thing stopping all PCs is hardware death or getting too slow. Macs have built-in obsolescence.
I've been in this game a long time, using Linux since the 90s. I've had one machine die outright after an attempted repair, all the rest aged out speed wise, or were so close that it wasn't worth fixing minor things like a busted keyboard.
I wonder now that crypto farming via GPUs has finally started bottoming out (yeah!) if that will change things. While people have held off upgrading their graphics cards b/c of insane prices -- as opposed to buying whole new rigs, prices are coming down back to earth a bit more which would also make whole systems theoretically a bit cheaper too.
Also, as another person mentioned, PCs last a long time these days, the economy (jobs, housing market, etc) has certainly been not the most stable and reliable, peop
And schools which now buy garbage Chromebooks by the truckload instead of PCs. Chromebooks are literally e-waste from the moment they are produced.
Apple basically deprecated all their laptops made before 2020. The writing is on the wall: if you have an Intel Mac, you will have to replace it, and soon. There are already features that are locked to the new "Apple Silicon" Macs, and more will be on the way.
So, yeah, not surprised Apple sales are up, considering that most Macs people currently owned are well on their way to being worthless and the Apple cult have been forced to replace them if they want to keep getting new features.
macOS Ventura 13.0 supports MacBooks from 2017 forward.
https://www.macrumors.com/how-... [macrumors.com]
macOS Ventura 13.0 supports MacBooks from 2017 forward.
whoop de doo. Ubuntu 20.04 supports my 2011 thinkpad (which started life on 10.04). This laptop will probably run an up to date OS with an up to date browser and full security patches into 2030, astonishingly. I expect it to age out to the point of being too slow, or they keyboard to fail before it runs out of support.
Glad it works for you, macOS works very well for me.
Sure I've no doubt it does, up until the point it's out of support. It's ok to make that choice, but it's daft to pretend that long life is something apple does well for its computers.
Do you use older Macs, or is this just an old-fashioned, 90's era, platform pissing contest taunt?
Do you use older Macs, or is this just an old-fashioned, 90's era, platform pissing contest taunt?
The discussion spawned from the initial link that the latest macOS doesn't support systems more than 5 years old. [macrumors.com]
Sure they run the older versions of the OS just fine much like older thinkpads or inspirons or whatever run Windows 7 just fine. I have an old 2012 macbook air that still works fine running its old, unsupported OS just like the ancient thinkpad I have works runnning Windows 7. Not ideal to be running an unsupported OS though of course.
Windows? Who said anything about windows?
Yeah it's a pissing contest because Macs hadn't planned obsolescence, something I personally find deeply obnoxious. I avoid Macs if I can, and no I won't put an unpatched OS with an unpatched browser on the internet because I'm not going to YOLO that. But you do you as they say.
The OS may be supported - however Apple has a tendency to introduce a bunch of tasty new programmer features with every major OS release (at least they did in the early days of unifying with iOS - I've been out of the loop for a while)
The result being that while your OS (and web browser, if you use Safari) may still be getting security updates from Apple, the latest software won't necessarily run on it. Which may not be a problem for some people, but is definitely something to be aware of. Especially if y
"Supports" needs to be in giant air quotes there.
Sure, Apple "supports" older hardware. But not really. They've been caught numerous times intentionally slowing older hardware with updates. Older hardware frequently gets "OS updates" that do nothing but slow down the OS without adding any of the newer features that newer hardware gets, frequently without any explanation. (For example, Apple Maps updates are limited to Apple Silicon Macs. Why? Who knows!)
Also, five years of support? For a PC? Windows support
My 2016 MacBook runs just fine on the current macOS. Security updates are still pushed as well, they have not deprecated Monterey. The slowing down story you refer to had to do with iPhones and it was trying to solve a battery issue.
Windows supports PCs way older than five years.
Windows supports PCs way older than five years.
Windows 11 only supports relatively recent machines. A lot of not so old hardware has been cut off. Apple's support period on the other hand is fairly predictable so you can plan ahead for it.
But Apple are also giving reasons to upgrade. New CPUs which require less power, heat up less, laptops that last far longer than the competition, etc.
With Windows laptops it's just more of the same, incremental upgrades that are not worth the price tag, so nobody wants to upgrade from their good enough setups which they already own.
Amount of people upgrading for "three different factors that are actually the same factor worded in three different ways" is about the same as PC users upgrading for the exact same three different factors.
What is different is that if you have a decade old laptop running work software from decade ago, it will still run current version of the same software today. You may need to throw more memory into it, but it will run them, because those are still going to be x64 applications. If you have a mac from 10 yea
Amount of people upgrading for "three different factors that are actually the same factor worded in three different ways" is about the same as PC users upgrading for the exact same three different factors.
Amount of people upgrading for "three different factors that are actually the same factor worded in three different ways" is about the same as PC users upgrading for the exact same three different factors.
I bought a 14" MacBook with an M1 Pro processor because:
- I was interested in the new processors - It was a memory and storage upgrade for me - It has a high-res screen that's a little larger than a 13.3" PC screen - They got rid of the Touchbar and restored a physical Esc key and function keys - It's got a decent keyboard that doesn't have a history of problems like earlier MacBooks - Monstrous battery life - They finally built a MacBook with a decent webcam (cuz like it or not, that's the reality of work these
>- I was interested in the new processors
Nothing else in the list was necessary. It's fine to want the latest shiny toy if you can afford it. Just recognize that you want a toy and not a tool.
>And I've never owned a Windows laptop that advertised anything about water resistance.
Because it's a given in modern commodity tools that are often used at workplace alongside a coffee mug to have it. You don't see advertisements on the fact that your car has liquid seals either. However that is not conducive to
Apple, even the newest models, has a real problem with not providing adequate cooling on its notebooks. Every single one of the goddamned things has problems with thermal throttling that could've been solved by making the thing a little heavier and a little bit noisier with some kind of better thermal solution. Yes, those M2-whatever CPUs are mostly pretty good for most use cases, but watching performance ramp up and down during sustained use is pretty disappointing.
Apple always add features that require newer hardware. I'm still using a late 2007 MBP at home. It's stuck on macOS 10.11, and I'm ok with that. I got a 16" 2019 MBP at work August last year, and will be using it for another four years if it doesn't die sooner, and I'm also ok with that. By the time I get an M6-based MBP on my desk, I think issues around virtualising Linux and Windows on macOS will be well resolved. Maybe sales are up because the Apple Silicon devices are performing so well compared wi
Judging from my experience in a store seeing people buy Apple laptops, I don't think they are doing a carefully considered evaluation of the performance, acoustics, and battery life before their purchase.
That's not to say they wouldn't fare well, but in the time I was in the area for other reasons, I heard three different people who don't really know any of this stuff. Basically, they had heard there was a big change, and were asking a *salesperson* if their old Mac was good enough (and *surprise*, the sale
Apple basically deprecated all their laptops made before 2020. The writing is on the wall: if you have an Intel Mac, you will have to replace it, and soon.
Apple basically deprecated all their laptops made before 2020. The writing is on the wall: if you have an Intel Mac, you will have to replace it, and soon.
Anyone who's been a MacOS user for a while is laughing at your "and soon."
The first generation PowerMacs in 1994 ran System 7.1.2, which had a 68k processor emulator to run old binaries, and also supported "fat binaries" with code for both 68k and PPC. 68k CPUs were supported up to MacOS 8.1 in 1998.
The switch to x86 happened under OS X 10.4, and it wasn't until 3 years after the entire product line was switched that 10.6 no longer supported PPC CPUs. And Rosetta stuck around for another 2 years for peopl
PC Shipments Are Still on the Decline - Unless You're Apple
PC Shipments Are Still on the Decline - Unless You're Apple
See, this is why I love Slashdot, once again we are going to have a factual and completely unemotional discussion about the merits of different PC brands with not a single harebrained and obsessive brand-conspiracy theorist in sight.
Why do you need a new PC compared to the 5 year old model you have? Well, it's not for browsing, email or discord, so what could possibly be the reason? Well, gaming.
What does gaming depend on the most? GPUs.
What is practically unobtanium if you're not willing to pay a scalper (or Apple, which isn't that much of a difference when it comes to price)?
People buy Apple products not because they need them, but for the cachet.
Also, some part of the market is designers, who need them to run ever more hairy stuff, and can't use PCs because every other designer uses Apples.
People buy Apple products not because they need them, but for the cachet.
People buy Apple products not because they need them, but for the cachet.
I buy Apple products because they are technically superior or equal to the competition with the metrics that matter to me. M1 MacBook Air, iPhones, iPad pros.
I could not care less about the fruit on the back.
I have a 6 year old PC that still runs pretty much every game I throw at it. I have to lower detail levels to medium or low in some modern AAA games, but it still runs them more or less fine.
The absolute mess that has been the adoption of both the latest console generation and GPU market in last couple of years all but killed "you need to have latest and greatest GPU to run latest and greatest games well" trend. The only game that really needed a new GPU was CP2077, and that wasn't because of GPUs lacking p
Not much different from my story. PC from 2016, with almost the best” PC hardware at the time (except workstations, but I digress). 2x 1080 Ti in SLI, X99 platform, 32 GB DDR4, a couple nVME SSDs and a bunch of SATA SSDs, watercooled monoblock and GPUs. Still runs even triple-A games well, even CP2077 (with some stuttering, but I won't fret). Been looking at newer hardware and the latest AMD releases look pretty good, but the waterblocks are not fully available and expensive AF. Upgrading right now would
In general most people need PC's (windows based) for work. With the Pandemic pushing a Work from Home policy in companies. A lot of people (and companies) rushed to get net PC's for the home offices.
Those PC's are now 1 or 2 year old now, and no reason to upgrade them. However Macs never got the big corporate hold that PC's did, mostly being reserved for mostly the Artsy folks at the company, and a few execs who want to show that they are better than everyone else. However, for a lot of people, they pref
I'm writing this on a '14 Macbook Pro that got a new battery about 2 years ago. My websites are hosted on a '14 Mac Mini. I routinely get at least 7 years from a Mac, measured since I got my first Mac back in '86. No Windows machine I've owned lasted more than 3 years (several of them, Dell and HP, apparently suffered from "capacitor rot.")
I also have a couple newer machines, M1 Mini for my wife and M1 Macbook Pro.
Thinkpads are superior hardware (when compared to most other Windows laptops.) They also c
Thinkpads are superior hardware (when compared to most other Windows laptops.) They also cost more than most Windows laptops; you get what you pay for.
Thinkpads are superior hardware (when compared to most other Windows laptops.) They also cost more than most Windows laptops; you get what you pay for.
I'm typing this on a 12 year old Lenovo, and they're my preferred brand these days (business class, anyway, not consumer). But if you're willing to shop used they're extremely affordable. For example I just picked up a T580 for $400 (still with a month of warranty!). Of course I immediately put Linux on it. I also have a couple 11 year old Dell E6520s that still work pretty well.
But I might be an outlier... I like running old computers, like the Fujitsu laptop I got in 2007. It has the best keyboard ou
The news article gets its information from here: https://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp... [idc.com]
Which pulls its data from here: https://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp... [idc.com]
Which defines "PC" as "Desktop (DT), notebook (NB), workstation (WS), detachable tablet, and slate tablet". Slate Tablets include devices like iOS and Android devices which do not run desktop OSes.
I'm pretty sure most people understand a "Personal Computer" to be a computer running Windows, MacOS, or some desktop Linux distribution. Unfortunately, I couldn't figu
Windows 11 seems to have contributed to used market saturation at pretty low prices. There are some good finds on ebay. A 5yro or less flagship system at a deal will do what I need. Mid to lower end for other's. I wonder how used sales are doing?
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